More popular apologetics books include: permission to believe and permission to receive. While I don’t think they’re good, they probably belong on this list.
I agree! I just haven't read those books, so I feel unqualified to place them on the tier list. I'd include Maimonides' Guide for the Perplexed as well if I had read it.
It is primarily chapter 44, but he adds a bit in the next two chapters. What I find fascinating, is that he seems to think that the Jews were ALWAYS perfectly observant in EVERY aspect of Judaism. Overall his arguments are circular since he LITERALLY believes every midrash and Aggadah which he uses to prove his points.
Thanks for sharing that! I hadn't head of this before.
My opinion (without having read the Chofetz Chaim's own words or his justifications, which could persuade me otherwise) is that the Jews were very likely not always perfectly observant, depending upon what's meant.
For example, the books of Judges, Samuel, and Kings are basically the Jews worshipping idols, God punishing them, rinse and repeat. Then during the time of the Maccabees, there were many Hellenized Jews who supported the Syrian Greeks. During the time of the Romans, there were Saducees and Essenes who the Pharisees, ancestors of Orthodox Jews, sometimes considered heretical. But I don't think the Chofetz Chaim would dispute this, so I'm unsure what he'd be meaning by "the Jews were ALWAYS perfectly observant in EVERY aspect of Judaism".
A literal view of every midrash and aggadah, in light of modern science and archaeology, is quite out there imo, and I certainly don't believe anything close to that. But I also understand that that view is defended by some in the Yeshivish community.
Wait ... Americans read Zamir Cohen? Zamir Cohen is for taxi drivers called Yossi with seventeen different amulets under the seat. Did someone not tell you?
I was in schul one Purim and I found an Megillas Ester with a ccommentary by Zamir Cohen. I turned to the front to see who gave it hascamah. It had one hascamah .... by Zamir Cohen 😂.
Lol, I don't know much about Zamir Cohen's reputation personally. It's not surprising that he's better known in Israel than abroad. Regarding his works, I can confirm that The Coming Revolution in particular is very well known and cited in Boston's Orthodox Jewish community I grew up in.
Awesome article! BTW, I know a whole bunch of shtarke bochurim or yungeleit who went OTD because of intellectual journeys, myself included. Check out the FB group Respectfully debating Judaism for a nice assortment of such people.
I could have added a bit more detail about that. Slifkin’s apologetics come from his arguments that the allegorical perspective he recommends is consistent with Orthodox Judaism and has historical precedent to its use from figures like Maimonides. In his view, today’s Haredi Jews’ dismissiveness towards science comes from a relatively modern ultra-skepticism of sources outside of the Rabbinic tradition. So his works are anti the apologetics of Haredi Biblical literalists, but also provide an alternative apologetic account for reconciling the Bible with modern science.
More popular apologetics books include: permission to believe and permission to receive. While I don’t think they’re good, they probably belong on this list.
(Also, ay, former Orthodox Jew gang)
I agree! I just haven't read those books, so I feel unqualified to place them on the tier list. I'd include Maimonides' Guide for the Perplexed as well if I had read it.
I recently came across a few chapters of apologetics from the Chofetz Chaim in his Sefer "Nidchei Yisroel".
See this:
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=41818&st=&pgnum=281
It is primarily chapter 44, but he adds a bit in the next two chapters. What I find fascinating, is that he seems to think that the Jews were ALWAYS perfectly observant in EVERY aspect of Judaism. Overall his arguments are circular since he LITERALLY believes every midrash and Aggadah which he uses to prove his points.
I'd be curious to hear your opinion on it.
Thanks for sharing that! I hadn't head of this before.
My opinion (without having read the Chofetz Chaim's own words or his justifications, which could persuade me otherwise) is that the Jews were very likely not always perfectly observant, depending upon what's meant.
For example, the books of Judges, Samuel, and Kings are basically the Jews worshipping idols, God punishing them, rinse and repeat. Then during the time of the Maccabees, there were many Hellenized Jews who supported the Syrian Greeks. During the time of the Romans, there were Saducees and Essenes who the Pharisees, ancestors of Orthodox Jews, sometimes considered heretical. But I don't think the Chofetz Chaim would dispute this, so I'm unsure what he'd be meaning by "the Jews were ALWAYS perfectly observant in EVERY aspect of Judaism".
A literal view of every midrash and aggadah, in light of modern science and archaeology, is quite out there imo, and I certainly don't believe anything close to that. But I also understand that that view is defended by some in the Yeshivish community.
I know of a good number of ex-orthodox who left because of intellectual reasons. Just check out the subreddit r/exjew, many such cases.
Out of curiosity, do you still consider yourself part of the Orthodox community? Or Jewish community at large?
Thanks for the reference!
My parents like to call me "nonpracticing Orthodox". If I were convinced that the Torah is true, I'd go right back to practicing!
As for being part of the Orthodox/Jewish community, I'm happy to hang out with open minded folks of any religious stripe.
Wait ... Americans read Zamir Cohen? Zamir Cohen is for taxi drivers called Yossi with seventeen different amulets under the seat. Did someone not tell you?
I was in schul one Purim and I found an Megillas Ester with a ccommentary by Zamir Cohen. I turned to the front to see who gave it hascamah. It had one hascamah .... by Zamir Cohen 😂.
Lol, I don't know much about Zamir Cohen's reputation personally. It's not surprising that he's better known in Israel than abroad. Regarding his works, I can confirm that The Coming Revolution in particular is very well known and cited in Boston's Orthodox Jewish community I grew up in.
"confirmation bias pornography" is an awesome description
Thanks for the nice words :)
I think the last two have strong precedent in Maimonides. (and are relatively compatible)
Zamir Cohen. LOL! you could put rebbe nachman on that list too if you wanted- thats not apologetics. its just a picture book
Agreed on the precedent in Maimonides.
Zamir Cohen gets quoted to me surprisingly often! I agree that there's a fair argument that his work is not really apologetics though.
This. This is kind of quality listicles I come to Substack for.
what's up with 625 ce? chatgpt didnt know
Awesome article! BTW, I know a whole bunch of shtarke bochurim or yungeleit who went OTD because of intellectual journeys, myself included. Check out the FB group Respectfully debating Judaism for a nice assortment of such people.
Thanks! Very cool to hear :)
In what way is the last one an apologetics book? Sounds like—from your description—an anti apologetics book
I could have added a bit more detail about that. Slifkin’s apologetics come from his arguments that the allegorical perspective he recommends is consistent with Orthodox Judaism and has historical precedent to its use from figures like Maimonides. In his view, today’s Haredi Jews’ dismissiveness towards science comes from a relatively modern ultra-skepticism of sources outside of the Rabbinic tradition. So his works are anti the apologetics of Haredi Biblical literalists, but also provide an alternative apologetic account for reconciling the Bible with modern science.
This, "frog that was as large as the fort..." do you know where I could find such a frog? Asking for a friend
If only we could ask Rabba bar bar Ḥana. Unfortunately, the modern-day consensus is that he was describing a figurative/metaphorical frog. SMH